LG

I've noted some other forum entries about "butt dialing", but none specific to the Env3 -- which in my experience is second to none in its propensity to unlock and dial within a purse or pocket.

The unlock implementation in the Env3 is not just dumb, it is offensively stupid. To demonstrate this for yourself, let the phone time out (or hold "0" to lock it). Place it on a flat surface then cover it with a mouse pad, folded facecloth, or other suitable butt simulator. Mash down on the covered phone just firmly enough to hear keyclicks. Repeat twice more. The phone is unlocked. Repeat some more to enjoy the mystery of what settings you've changed or far off people you've dialed.

What makes this offensive (to my sensibilities as an engineer) is that this could be fixed with a near-trivial firmware change: reset the unlock sequence if any key /other than/ "Ok" is pressed. That way a sequence of mash-downs won't be very likely to get past the first step.

I read elsewhere that there was a firmware update to the Env2 which provided a "two-step" unlock option, which required "Ok" followed by "Clr". That's fine, but it would likely be just as ineffective unless the sequence is reset by any key other than "Clr". Otherwise a mash-down is likely to get it just as easily as "Ok". In fact, without a sequence reset it might be worse -- a single mash-down might get both those keys, and given that the "Ok" is raised relative to "Clr", would likely get them in the right sequence.

A slightly more advanced improvement would be to notice that multiple keys are pressed simultaneously, and in this case not just reset the unlock sequence but disable it for a short duration.

I appreciate your feedback I use my EnV 3 a lot, and luckily haven't had a problem with the dialing. I am forwarding your suggestions to our product team. I just listened to a presentation a few weeks ago and found out a lot about the reasoning for some inclusions and exclusions in phone development. I was amazed out what really goes into one phone. We are always looking to be better,so thank you for taking the time to talk to us.

Thanks for listening!

To be precise, it is when the phone says "PRESS OK AGAIN" that there's an opportunity for any other key to set the state back to "PRESS OK TO UNLOCK", or perhaps better, all the way back to lights out. I appreciate the fact that the "PRESS OK AGAIN" state has a three second time-out, but it seems that the bucket seat of a car is all it takes to overcome the lock. ;-)

This wouldn't make a difference for users that select the "Press Once" option, but they must not be having a problem anyway (or else they'd have tried the "Press Twice" option). OTOH, if you went to lights out for any key other than OK even at the "PRESS OK TO UNLOCK" state, that possibly would make the lock more robust even for users with the "Press once" option.

Glad you saw that presentation (wish I had), but in general yes, the things you learn about your product through usability testing are often amazing, and possibly horrifying to the development team. Such a study might show that going all the way to lights out for any key other than OK might be more confusing than it is worth.

I'm new to this so forgive me if I'm not in the right place. The Env3 keyboard lock function is a real problem. I like to keep my phone in my front pocket - I've eliminated keys , change, etc. In the past two days the phone has been activated and dialed 18 numbers (most of them nonsense) in two cases I received a call back from people I rarely talk to. In one case, the woman stayed on the line attempting to hear what I was talking about to others - funny to her, a potential hazard for me. I am reduced to locking the phone with my code - after pressing 9 numbers with the phone in the open position, Im safe. Then, when I make a call, unlock the phone and --DONT FORGET--it needs to locked again. Its this simple, if the problem doesn't have a quick fix, the phone has to go back to Verizon - I simply can't afford the potential liability this "press ok twice" disarming system represents to me.

HELP otherwise, I like the phone.

Hi thanks for posting. Do you think that a holster would work for you? I am unaware of another way to lock your phone that would be more convenient. I totally understand that pocket dialing is completely inconvenient and a potential hazard". I will forward your concern.

Along these lines, I'm not sure if this is a request or a need for education on my part, but can I adjust the timeout on the lock. If I'm entering a phone number on the 10 key and go too slow, the keypad will lock on me. It looks like it's about a 7 second timeout right now. Can I modify that? Maybe I'm asking for a setting (along the lines of the backlight timeout) to controll how long I want the device to wait before auto-locking again.

Thanks!

Shai has an excellent suggestion and it or something similar should be implimented as soon as possible.

I am a paramedic and as such my phonebook contains numbers for various ER emergency lines, backdoor numbers to the county 911 center. As such this pocket dialing problem can be a significant problem. 10 minutes ago I got a callback from the county 911 center realized my phone was in emergency mode and had activated e-911. This drove me over the edge.

The phone is on the double click to unlock mode, i have disable one touch dialing, i've switched pockets, carry position, etc. Nothing works. There are no particularly good cases available for this phone that both protect the front screen and buttons yet allow the flip-open functionality without removing the case.

Not only is rediculous that this problem exists and there isn't yet a simple fix available, but given that this isn't an isolated problem, i can guarantee that somewhere, right this instant, an Env3 user is wasting some dispatcher's time and tying up emergency services.

I carry mine in a pouch on my belt, and it has never done this.

Posted by Winger on 31 Oct 2009 09:39 AM:

I carry mine in a pouch on my belt, and it has never done this.

Obviously, a problem with pocket/purse dialing would be confined to people who carry their phone in a pocket or purse.

The implication in your post that people with this problem should just "wear a pouch" really doesn't fly. Many people don't like how a belt pouch breaks up the lines on their cloting and makes it look like they have a hip tumor, others like myself have a radio, 2 pagers, glove pouch, flashlight, etc. cluttering their belt already. Others might not wear belts.

This is a obvious problem that needs a simple firmware fix.

Yes, you can. Unlock the phone from the exterior keypad. Select menu. Use the left and right arrows to scroll through the menu until you get to Key Guard. Select that and you can chose up to 30 seconds to auto lock or never lock at all, although not letting it lock will cause the problems people have when carrying it in their pocket. You can also set it so you have to press the OK key twice to unlock it. This also helps pocket carriers.

The Verizon store told me that I couldn't change this setting. But an email to LG's tech support got me the answer. Personally, I use the two-press unlock setting and carry it in a belt pouch. I've never had it dial by itself.

I started using cell phones when they had to be hard wired, then bag phones, etc. I like the env3 better than any other one I've ever owned.

Now, if I can figure out how to keep the forum site from sending me 25 emails a day, I'll be happy.

I registered here JUST to post in response to this topic...

This is very much an issue with the enV3! It's downright ridiculous how easy it is to unlock the phone in your pocket. Sometimes the phone isn't even locked, like during a data call (Bluetooth tethering). I was hesitant to get a phone with front buttons for this very reason. Back in the old Nokia days, it was a problem as well - even though those phones had a much improved Menu-* combination (at opposite ends of the keypad)! Now, even with two-press OK enabled (that's under front menu->keyguard->3. unlock options->press twice), it's still a problem from time to time - much more often than I'd like to admit. I haven't yet pocket-dialed anyone (which is surprising, since "Emergency" is the first contact if you hit Contacts!), but I imagine I've gotten pretty close... I frequently pull out my phone to find the Bluetooth menu open, or random digits dialed on the screen, etc.

LG, please fix this! I've put my faith in LG for the past 3 phones (VX6100, VX8300, and now the EnV3/VX9200). So far, so good. But this is just a serious step backwards in terms of usability.

While you're at it, can you please fix the text entry processing speed? I can almost count the rate at which it accepts buffered keypresses. I can type a text message a ways in advance of it entering on the screen (and beeping), it's just silly that I sometimes have to wait 2-3 seconds for it to catch up! >.

Posted by Winger on 31 Oct 2009 09:39 AM:

I carry mine in a pouch on my belt, and it has never done this.

Also, I just noticed this. Why... why would you register just to say that you never had the issue described in a random thread? Just seems kinda cover-uppy, that's all.

Posted by Winger on 16 Nov 2009 14:12 PM:

Yes, you can. Unlock the phone from the exterior keypad. Select menu. Use the left and right arrows to scroll through the menu until you get to Key Guard. Select that and you can chose up to 30 seconds to auto lock or never lock at all, although not letting it lock will cause the problems people have when carrying it in their pocket. You can also set it so you have to press the OK key twice to unlock it. This also helps pocket carriers.

Thanks dude, but, you're still not getting it. I carry my phone in my pocket with the keyguard set to 7 second delay with a double click to unlock. It still goes off. The reason yours doesn't is because you wear your phone in a pouch, not because you discovered a super-secret way to lock the keys. It's simply not an issue for people who carry in a pouch.

I've gotta be honest the lock function drives me nuts on this phone. I carry the phone in a belt holster and it still unlocks itself in the holster. I find the random numbers and calls, as well as changed blue tooth and background pictures. Just today while working on my truck the phone entered the music player and started playing away, while supposedly locked. I guess next will be taking pictures on its own.

I truely miss the lock feature of my vx10 and vx5200 which you held a key to lock it then entered the four digit code to unlock it. Would it be too hard to allow the user to select the current modes to lock/unlock or the classic mode from the same menu?

The "butt dialing" problem is exactly the reason I am hesitating to buy the EnV-3.

Everything about the phone is appealing: size, texting ability, front keyboard... but I would rather stay with my old phone (with which I can only make calls on speakerphone - quite embarassing at times) than buy the EnV-3 when I am positive I will have problems with it unlocking in my pocket.

It seems there is an easy fix to this problem, without extensive re-programming on the part of LG: prior LG model phones needed a 4 digit "password" to unlock the phone. Adding this option to work just on the front keyboard (without getting rid of the "click once" and "click twice" options - I know some people would still use those) this would completely eliminate the problem. And I could finally get a new phone

I bought this phone to carry in my pocket - was tired of messing with pouches on my belt. But it constantly butt dials, shuts off on its own or plays random music. Yes I have it on two press and 7 seconds. Why in the world would you design a phone using the most protruding key as the unlock. The OK button should have been recessed not sticking out. PLEASE add a software update to compensate for this poor design.

I've had this phone 3 months and keep it in a belt holster and am constantly having issues with the lock function not actually locking. As previously stated - changed wallpapers, "butt dialing" -- in my case holster dialing, etc. I had the original ENV and never had this issue. FYI, I'm using the Verizon Universal Pouch: http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/accessory?action=accessoryDetails&archetypeId=2168&page=1.

@Winger - I've tried the keyguard using my belt holster. Good thing you reminded me because the holster dialing reset my phone to require a single OK click.

Adding a four digit code (suggested by @kashack) would be really helpful. Or combo key. Something. Please.

Replication: Put phone in pouch. Make sure it is on and keyboard locked. Rub hand across pouch a couple of times. Watch the results.
Real life situations: Walking through crowded areas. Getting in/out of vehicle. Sitting in chair and shifting weight. Removing/replacing phone to check time. Sheesh.

Other than that , it's a great phone

Just to add, in addition to my own problems with the phone unlocking, my father reported that he is having the same problems with his and he does use a belt holster. Time to fix this problem already.

Well a couple new annoyances have cropped up, I was browsing my contact list and found several entries of gibberish. I found my phone in camera mode with serveral all blacked out pictures stored.

Read this:..

LG went backwards regarding the lock function in my opinion.....

I had the same "butt-dialing" issues with my EnV2 UNTIL the 06 software came out with the "Two Step Unlock" option.....

Then LG came out with the EnV3 and they didn't incorporate the solution to this issue that they had already solved with the EnV2....

I'm looking to get a new phone, and I may need to look at other manufacturers because I don't want to butt-dial with LG's current phone options. I like LG's phones but I refuse to deal with that butt-dialing again.....My question is how many complaints does it take to get a software change?...

R-